"I have a degree from the University of Life" - a common phrase in interviews or the front bar. But how important is it to have a degree these days?
The UK Government has spent around £800m to target 50% of all 6th formers to go on to University - despite the noble target, the drop out rate when they get to university has increased. There are various theories (as voiced on BBC Radio Five Live's phone in this morning) that modern undergraduates are less prepared academically due to easier exams, to the youth of today being more sensitive to leaving home, to fear of long term debt and costs, to poor career advice leading to the wrong course selection and therefore disillusionment. However, I wanted to look at the issue from the point of view of whether a degree actually gets you a better job, enhances your credentials over those that haven't got one, makes you more money, or does it not matter - it's your experience that counts? From an employer's point of view - what level of importance do you put on a degree being on a CV? Do you actively use it to screen out candidates or differentiate those at interview?
Degree on the CV
As a manager who recruits and finds talent for growing companies, I actually think a CV is not that important. More often than not they are 'floral' to say the least, used as marketing objects and have so many varieties of structures and inclusions as to be hard to compare. They have become documents to enter the CV repositories to be key word searched by recruiters along with Linked In Profiles. If you are one of those managers who thinks having enough CVs thrown at you until one sticks is a good way of recruiting then this article won't appeal to you.
I must admit I am interested to see if a degree is on a CV and it does have some influence although in the final analysis it has little bearing on differentiating between shortlisted candidates for a job and none whatsoever in the interviews. I am much more interested in what makes them the person they are and whether they could add value to my company or my client's.
So does having a degree matter?
My strongest advice for anyone at school is to continue learning. I did a degree in Physics & Chemistry and became a computer salesperson - I would put hand on heart and say that I have used only small parts of the academic stuff I learnt about the subjects at any point in my career. However, what I did learn was how to express what I knew in words and speech, and that has served me in great stead in my career. I also learnt how interaction with people can have positive effects on your life and most importantly I gained ambition (not that I couldn't have learnt that elsewhere but it was at a time of great industrial unrest and poor job prospects - I became a very determined person). Most all it got me on a rung in the ladder of my career; it got me a job with Hewlett Packard via their annual graduate intake.
But, has it had any further bearing on my career? I can honestly say it hasn't. Now I'm talking from the position of going through sales, marketing, general management to senior executive positions - we like to call ourselves 'professionals' but I do not mean it in the same way an engineer or lawyer or accountant or microbiologist or architect or doctor may need the necessary learning to do their jobs. Let's draw that distinction - I mean general purpose business jobs.
One last point on this - so if there is a degree on the CV and it is important to have one, then surely there must relevance in the subject taken? That's where most of this falls flat and so does my own ideas on relevance. If a degree is in Air Guitaring or Klingon (trust me you can get them).......well, I think you get my point.
But what if there were no degree on a CV?
That's an interesting point - if I look for one then there must be a reason. Some think it is a certain marque of approval, like seeing if the person has driving licence only it has more Kudos, I think I would agree with that. Some say that it means the person has the capability to learn - but I would say that I think that wanes with time, though I greatly admire people who study in parallel with their career. Very often you will see job adverts mandating a degree (or sometimes 'equivalent experience' - I am not sure how that works) and I wonder what value these organisations are placing on the degree itself. Are they seriously saying that they want to filter our budding Alan Sugars? Or are they just filling in the boxes because the process is becoming more regimented?
And what of experience in place of a degree? Is spending the missing three years canoing down the Amazon or sweeping floors in a bakery or starting as office boy at a computer store more valuable than university? The jobs are merely examples, there is a terrific You Tube video of Steve Jobs' address to Stanford University students in which he outlines why dropping out of his course at Stanford prepared him for his amazing career - it's worth listening to.
I think my point would be that experience of any sort is worth nothing unless you learn from it. In the same way, valuable experience from which you learn in place of a degree course could well be a good alternative. I think you have to read beyond the CV.
Here's a controversial point
I think recruiting and finding talent is devalued in the modern business world. I recently talked to a very experienced businessman who went for a job interview to find the interviewer was a young HR person barely out of university who was doing a first interview for a Vice President position. After 15 minutes worth of 'what are your strengths?' followed by 'what are your weaknesses?' the businessman got up to leave. When asked why he was ending the interview he replied, 'I'm being interviewed for the second most senior job in the company by a person who has no idea of what is required and who doesn't even work at the company. How do you think that makes me feel about the Company?' While he may have felt good at the time, I can't help feeling he was lopping off his nose to spite his face but I really understand the point - the point being the young HR person worked for the outsourcer for the particular company and would you ask a monkey to find a new organ-grinder?
From the mass of commoditised Contingent Recruiters to HR people to Recruitment Outsourcers there is a common theme, for the kinds of sales and executive jobs they are recruiting for they have zero or little experience of actually doing them. So they tree-hug the 'official requirements' - the boxes to tick. A degree is required and if it ain't on the CV you don't get interviewed. How many talented people get automatically screened at that point and would the recruiting managers be concerned if they knew? The fact is most recruitment or Talent Acquisition is executed as 'slot-filling' and it's expensive at that.
A final thought
I recently worked with Theorem Inc to help establish their business in the UK and I researched and found a superb new UK Business Development Manager as their first employee. When the CEO, Jay Kulkarni, and I were brainstorming the Ideal Candidate Profile I asked him would a degree be required. He replied no. When I asked why, he replied 'It doesn't prove a person is intelligent, it just proves they can learn to pass exams.'
With that, I would like to hear your views. Is a degree really that important today or is experience the more important?
Thursday, 5 June 2008
Is a degree essential on a CV?
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13 comments:
starting from exactly the same condition yes, it does make the difference.
HI Nigel
Yes, if you have a degree, it should most certainly be on the resume. From my perspective, a degree does not guarantee you a job, nor should someone view a degree that way. Going to university for most is a new life experience, the freedom and how you manage it, moving away from home, being self reliant, mangaging your money, and then there is the school. The self discipline required to make it through. Those are life skills. At the same time, going to University teaches you to think, to learn on your own, problem solve, communicate. Those are skills that every employer looks for. This is not to say that if you do not go to University, you cannot/will not learn those things, but it is pretty much a guarantee in a post secondary environment.
I have been out of University for 20 years now (YIKES!) and I can honestly say that I use the skills I learned from that whole experience every day!
Continued Success
HI Nigel
Yes, if you have a degree, it should most certainly be on the resume. From my perspective, a degree does not guarantee you a job, nor should someone view a degree that way. Going to university for most is a new life experience, the freedom and how you manage it, moving away from home, being self reliant, mangaging your money, and then there is the school. The self discipline required to make it through. Those are life skills. At the same time, going to University teaches you to think, to learn on your own, problem solve, communicate. Those are skills that every employer looks for. This is not to say that if you do not go to University, you cannot/will not learn those things, but it is pretty much a guarantee in a post secondary environment.
I have been out of University for 20 years now (YIKES!) and I can honestly say that I use the skills I learned from that whole experience every day!
Continued Success
This really depends on whether we are talking about the hiring of graduate level candidates or experienced campaigners.
Some companies insist on a degree and others do not; experience counts. I would say that a degree simply measures your ability to see a complex task through to completion whilst arming you with some knowledge. This knowledge is often not valid in the business world unless you have studied something particular to your career. University is different to the commercial world and will not prepare you for that unless you do a course that allows you to work in a professional environment for a year or so. The application and delivery of business critical decisions is not something you can pick up on campus, it is learnt in the workplace.
This argument crops up frequently and I would say that a degree helps enormously for professional sectors like medical, legal and banking but are less important for sectors like IT. There are plenty of very talented individuals in the world who do not have a degree and can hold there own in any boardroom or professional environment.
Personally I like people to have degrees as it often represents the level of application a candidate can reach (this is inline with the grade achieved) but I will never rule out candidates who do not. When I ask candidates why they think they only received a 2:2 or a third the reply is often that they did not apply themselves fully during their time at college. This could just be down to immaturity and they may well be very good, level headed professionals at the point we have our discussion. What I am trying to get across here is that there are many things we need to take into consideration in these cases and just looking at whether someone is a fit for a role based on whether or not they have a degree is nuts (sector specific!!).
f the candidate has newly left school with a degree, then the degree should be prominent on the CV. As work experience lengthens and deepens, the degree is less important, but still should be on the CV. What should NOT be on the CV is a degree from an institution that the candidate has attended but not graduated. Seems straightforward, I know; but I know of someone who recently lost a job for lying about having graduated from a very prestigious university without having actually graduated. Skills matter a lot; but character and attitude still matter more.
Hi Nigel..for me a degree isn't essential, apart from the exclusive few professions already mentioned.
If a degree is specified on a CV some of the context to me is where did you study, ie a top 10 establishment or not. Sometimes it really doesn't matter what the degree is in - which seems odd to me. As best as possible it's ideal that a degree should be 'relevant' to the job-holder & role.
I haven't got one & have suffered no harm or lost opportunities. My degree is the 'university of life' which was helped in early days by lots of technical training in the armed forces starting at 16 yrs old.
All the best
Ian
I think that degrees are not yet mandatory, but it is certainly increasingly rare to find professionals who achieve their status absent the academic credentials.
It is my rudimentary understanding that the extreme minority continues to apply for professional standing and licensure, as some entities are perfectly willing to accept the applicant's fees and references in exchange for a try at successful test results.
In the engineering game, one can credibly cite significant achievement and peer recognition in the hope that the issuing state board might waive the nominal academic credential qualification.
I think there are some people who will attempt the law boards without what has been considered by conventional wisdom the requisite academic credentials.
As a manager, I manage several staff who are engineers by title but not by degree.
I don't happen to consider their existence an affront to my own background, Bluto Blutarsky's proverbial "seven years of college down the drain!"
They are very good men, all trying their best and exceptionally good hands at automation, controls, instrumentation, process equipment troubleshooting, problem solving, vendor management and supporting the enterprise in sustainable, reliable and highly motivated fashion.
I do understand how certain people who achieve the degree or earn licensure may be entitled to the prerogative of feeling that such individuals might not be strictly eligible for the nominal title.
To me, the academic credential indicates the state of an individual having somehow earned a certification. To infer that this condition renders the recipient a competent worker, decent individual or even human in this day and age seems like a risky proposition at best.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140727,00.html
I was told it is very necessary for those individuals that take time off their career to complete educational goals. And then, return to the workplace.
I am actually one of those statistics. Kept myself busy with temp jobs and volunteer work in the process, which are suppose to make my qualifications stronger and shows determination.
Good luck.
- S. Alicia Seecharan
Seattle, WA
I think that it depends on the level of candidate that you are talking about. If the position is an entry level role I believe that it is more important to have a degree. Employers are looking for someone that shows commitment, perserverance, and the ability to complete a task. When you don't have any experience that is all you have to show an employer that you have the character to want to be at the company that hires you for a long time, especially after training you.
With someone that has experience I don't look at the degree or place as much value on it other than trying to figure out how it led them to the path they took in their career. I more look at tenure, progression, and accomplishments.
Well personally, and rather controversially looking at the other responses, I'd say it's not essential these days. Unless of course it's for the professions you listed such as doctors, lawyers etc.
It's important to remember that these guys will have an additional 3-4 years (or more) experience and will more than likely have worked their way through the ranks - therefore having a great understanding of working on the front line (or whatever their line of work is). I'm absolutely not knocking the invaluable experience gained at Uni - it's just that I think these days we ought to be more open minded.
So, to summarise, I believe it's much more important to look at experience, skills and competencies rather than getting hung up on whether they have a degree or not.
As an HR professional, I have always found that it pays to keep an open mind on this topic. It is so easy to filter out applicants based on fixed criteria, such as the presence or absence of a degree. However, I have found it to be invaluable to maintain an open mind and look beyond fixed criteria. Just because someone has a degree does not mean that they know how, or are willing to apply what they have learned toward the benefit of an employer.
As one of the responses clearly indicates, those of us without degrees have had to work that much harder toward our success, always demonstrating significant drive, initiative and results, as well as the ability to learn and adapt quickly - all of which I believe are imperative employee traits in ensuring the success of any organization. These traits are not guaranteed simply by virtue of having a degree, and to assume as such would be neglectful in your obligation to hire the best candidates for your employer.
In short, I agree with all of the responses. There are clearly some professions where you do not have the option of considering an individual without a degree, which are typically those in licensed professions. However, in professions where a degree is not an absolute, the presence of significant and successful experience presents much stronger evidence in support of an individual’s potential to bring value to an organization, than simply the presence of a degree.
I am not attempting to diminish the value of a degree in any way. However, I do believe that there is a point in which experience becomes equal in value, albeit not always easy to quantify.
I have found in my experience of sourcing quality candidates for the 'Power' industry, that a Degree is seldom a prerequisite, as practical experience is equally favored. In my view a Degree will show that a person is of a certain level of intelligence but wouldn’t necessarily qualify them a 'better' candidate than some one who has not achieved in this educational arena.
Whilst I agree with Nigel Dunn (European Market Entry for North American High Tech companies) that in recruitment there is an element of ‘matching keywords’ on applicants CV's but 'ticking boxes' certainly isn’t the service that I offer to either client or candidate. I am a strong believer that a CV doesn’t fully represent candidates and it is only after speaking with the person that you are better equipped to understand what they could have to offer an organisation.
All that said, I wouldn’t suggest that it would be easy to be considered a contender for a technical type opportunity, with both limited ‘hands on experience and little evidence of educational achievements. After all, you would be in a much stronger position with an equal balance of both.
Claire Heywood
Divisional Utilities Director
Denny Executive Resourcing
Hi Nigel,
As mentioned on my comment on Linkedin, it really depends on number of factors with regards to having a degree or not:
1. If a candidate is a fresher and has a degree; it indicates that a person can learn or can be trained
2. Secondly, if a candidate has a degree with experience but has been working in a totally different field than it indicates that he has the ability to learn things quickly and implement them as well.
3. At the same time if the person has extensive experience in particular field, I don't think degree matters as the person has required expertise in the specific field and can degree holders.
The conclusion to the above points is, if one has a degree then it should be on a CV but it would never guarantee a job.
Hope this helps.
regards,
Chris
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